How to Create Content that Converts

How to Create Content that Converts

Episode 84 on the Business Bites Podcast

The Gist Of This Episode: Content is more than just blog posts.  It’s your social media posts, sales pages, anything you are putting out there. For it to be effective, it needs to turn your ideal customer into an actual customer. Join Rachel and Danielle Cevallos as they discuss ways you can use your content to bring clients in the door. 


What you will learn:

  • Why you need to understand your ideal client and your unique selling proposition
  • How to learn what writing style works for you
  • What the biggest mistake people make when creating content
  • How testimonials can increase your perceived expertise with potential clients
  • Why keeping it simple is sometimes the best approach
  • and more!

Expand To Read Episode Transcripts

Rachel Brenke: Hey guys. Welcome to the Business Bites Podcast. I am your host Rachel Brenke, and this week we are going to be talking about content that converts. This can be for service-based business, product-based, we just know that we need to have content that’s going to convert our ideal customer into an actual customer, someone that is actually paying us for whatever product or service it is that we are providing. Before we dig in, just to let you guys know, you can get all of the show notes, find out about our guest, Danielle, and check out the transcript at So Danielle, welcome to the podcast. I’m excited to talk about content and conversions. Welcome, welcome.

Danielle: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to chat as well.

Rachel Brenke: You know what? I absolutely love this, guys. She is a conversion copywriter for business owners who want to scale. That’s our goal here is to get in, get out, quick bits of info so that we can go and scale our business. She also hosts a podcast, which is called The Basic Girl Marketing Podcast and also runs a mentorship program that will teach your team members how to write copy. Ooh, I need that, so that you guys can stop outsourcing it and start increasing your profits and your profile within yourself. Danielle, like myself, is a wife, mom. She’s a former teacher. I’m not. Couldn’t do it. Takes a special person, and a basic girl to the core. She loves Starbucks, Legally Blonde, and all things sparkly. So Danielle, welcome. Can you give us a little background about you, how you got here, and your path to entrepreneurship?

Danielle: Sure. So a lot of people say they think they were born an entrepreneur. I wouldn’t have said that initially. But now kind of looking back I think there was always a little bit of me that really craved kind of being my own boss and freedom. And so very early on that looked like dabbling in network marketing, which I ended up just not loving. It just wasn’t my thing. And I had always kind of had this desire to have something on the side. I went to graduate school, got a degree to teach. Teaching’s a pretty stable kind of path, and I just went about that for years. And then when we lived overseas I just kind of got that itch again to try something new.

And so I became a personal trainer. And because we were living overseas, we lived in Bangkok, Thailand, I couldn’t actually legally work in Thailand outside of the school I was teaching at. And so I had to do my business online. And it kind of opened me up to this entirely new world that I really didn’t know existed. And I quickly got a coach who kind of walked me through what it looked like to build a business online. And I started my fitness business. And this coach had a digital marketing agency, and I had logged a significant amount during our adoption of our two daughters.

And she said, “Hey, I need a writer. Would you want to write for me?” So I did, and she then asked me if I wanted her to write for all of her clients, because she, in this digital marketing, she would create ebooks for her clients, blogs, sales pages, funnels, you name it. And so I ended up writing all of this content for probably 40, 50 different women who are mostly fitness pros and life coaches, photographers. But it was kind of a unique experience because I got to not only see the behind the scenes of building my own fitness business, but behind the scenes of all these other women building their businesses.

And everybody did it a little differently, and they were all successful. And so it gave me kind of a unique perspective. I ended up getting burned out, swore off all business forever. For about a month I said, “I’m just going to be a teacher. I’m just going to be happy.” And it lasted literally about five weeks. And I was itching to do something again, started an online store. Hated it, sold it, and just kind of really got back to the core of who I am and what I love. And I loved marketing strategy.

I love sales. And I was a really good copywriter. And during that time I had gotten even more training focusing specifically on conversions. And so I just decided to kind of go back all in. And I quit my teaching job about a week ago.

Well, I finished my teaching job. So, yeah. That’s the very quick version. There’s a million twists and turns in the middle, but that’s kind of the overview.

Rachel Brenke: And I love this, guys. I brought Danielle on because she is a naturally born copywriter. Someone like myself, I’m not. Although I write most of my own, it really has taken me over a decade to somewhat get into a semblance of good copy. And when we’re talking about copy here, this is everything. This could be sales pages. It could be your social media posts. It is blog posts. It can be anything, any text that you’re putting out there, and you can pair it with graphics, et cetera, is copy. It is what your potential customer or client is consuming. And it’s how you’re going to convince them.

In my other episodes, you guys know that I do not shy away. I really hammer home the idea of having this ideal client and then your unique selling proposition. That’s great. But in order to convey those two, you have to have proper copy. So [inaudible 00:05:33] Danielle, I mean, Danielle, I guess let’s just skip ahead to what are the top three tips to help the listeners on this subject matter?

Danielle: Yeah, so I think that they’re … You kind of mentioned the starting point, and I think that we always want the new, shiny thing, and we get tired of the same old, same old. But honestly those things are the truth. And if you don’t really understand your ideal client and your unique selling propositioning, then you will be lost. You won’t know what to communicate. And that will come across in everything. And you can see people all over the internet who struggle with this in their social media posts and their live videos, they’re bouncing all over. And when you ask them what they do, they can’t clearly articulate it or write it.

So that truly is the foundation. It’s not that sexy, but it really is your starting point, because when you fully understand that, copy becomes a lot easier. I think people have this big block around it, because they just think, “I’m not a good writer.” And I’m not going to lie to you that there are some people who I think, “Yeah, you shouldn’t be writing your own copy.” But you can all start from a place of understanding what your ideal client’s pains are and their desired outcomes. And if you do that, you don’t have to be the best writer. You can still connect with them in a way that’s real and authentic, and that will get them interested in what you’re saying.

So that’s the foundation. If you are someone who thinks, “I’m just not great at this,” there’s a couple of things you want to keep in mind. Simplicity and clarity over cleverness always wins. And I think people look at people who are really skilled writers, and everything sounds perfect and flowy and great, and that’s wonderful if you can do it. But at the end of the day, if you feel like this isn’t your strength, but you need to do it anyway, then always go with the most clear, straightforward language you could possibly use. Because a confused person doesn’t buy.

So if they are not sure what you’re offering, if they are not sure whether you’re the right person for them, if they’re not sure they’re the right person for you, they’re not sure what you do, they’re never going to take the time to find out, because there’s a million other people out there. So go with-

Rachel Brenke: I’m glad you bring that up, because I was that person. I feel like I’m very clever and quippy in person, and so it works really well when I’m at speaking engagements. But when I try putting it into my sales copy, it was leading to confusion. People were like, “What? This doesn’t make sense.” And it took me a while to peel back the layers and like you said, get simplistic, get minimalistic in my writing. And so I even look at my websites now and I go, “Ugh, that copy is so not me, because it’s not clever and quippy, because it’s doing its job to draw the attention and tell them exactly what my solution is for their problem. But, yes, I’m glad you brought that up. How funny. Yeah, I get my cleverness from my dad. Sometimes it’s funny, sometimes it’s not. But it conveys way better in speaking.

Danielle: And that is something you have to know your boundaries on. If you know it’s great in speaking, but you’re not there yet in your writing, then like you said, back off a bit. There comes a point where you learn to weave it all in. But most people running a business, unless you’re running a writing business, you don’t have time to figure that out, because you’re doing your business. You’re doing whatever it is that you’re … You’re training your clients. You’re building their programs. And you don’t have time to spend hours on that. So, again, just go with a clear, straightforward.

Another thing, you need to really … This is the biggest mistake I see people make, and I just want to shake them. We love our industry lingo and our programs. We love to talk … If you’re a fitness pro, you love to talk about your macros and your weight training or your intermittent fasting or whatever it is. And that’s okay sometimes, but 85% of your content needs to be talking about what your clients want. They want to stop feeling crappy in their own skin. Fitness pros, I know you hate it, but your people want to be toned.

I know you don’t like that word, but that’s what they say, and you need to say it, too. Because that’s what they want. They want to look good in their bathing suit. They want to wake up with more energy. If you are constantly touting the great things about your programs and your offers, they will tune that out. They want to know that you understand that this hard for them, that you understand why they keep doing crash diets, that you understand, if you’re a business coach, you understand why they struggle to get new clients.

They want to know, number one, that you get them. So you always have to validate where they are. Number two, they want to know that you understand the solution and that you can kind of infuse hope into them, because typically they’re at a point where they don’t have hope that they can get there. So whether that’s building a six-figure business, they think it in the back of the mind, “That’d be nice,” but secretly they’re saying, “It’s not really for me.” Or they see that girl on the cover of Fitness Magazine and they’re like, “I don’t think I could ever do that.”

So they want it. They really want it, but they don’t necessarily believe they can get it. So you’ve got to infuse some hope into their souls and say, “You actually can, and here’s why.” And then you’ve got to show that you’re the only option. And for 85% of businesses, this is truly building your [inaudible 00:11:10] trust factor. Again, it’s not super sexy, but that’s it. Because there’s a million fitness coaches who can help people reach their goals. So why will they choose you? Because they like you.

Because they want to be your friend, because they want to be in your circle, because they trust you. So you’ve got to really build that into your content. And then you’ve got to show them the finished, “This is what it could look like. It really can be your reality.” And that’s where you use testimonials of people who are like them, because they need to see this mom of four kids. She had four kids in five years, and she’s in the trenches of mom life. She did lose the baby weight, and she does feel great in her clothes, and she did it with no time, no sleep, and very little money, because she’s using it for her four kids.

They need to see someone like them in your testimonials. So it’s not enough to just slap up a before and after picture. Tell the story of that person. What did they come to you struggling with? What does their life look like? How did you solve their problem? And what do they feel like now?

Rachel Brenke: I love that. And actually you guys might want to rewind that, because that tidbit right there is phenomenal. I mean, much of what we’ve talked about here, obviously, is really important. But that, for me, I just kind of had a light bulb moment, because I’m one of those people I speak in legal and business strategy. Well, yeah, my USP is so unique in the different industries that I’m in, but when I started using jargon, it’s legal jargon specifically, right? People are like, “Eh, I don’t know what this is. And when they become uncomfortable because they don’t connect with it, like you’re talking about, or they don’t know what it means, especially with legal stuff, it strikes fear if they become overwhelmed and they just X and go away.

And for me it’s been hard to … I’m kind of straddling the fence. I’m trying to educate the business owners, whether it’s photographers or fitness pros, and I’m trying to bring you what the legal jargon is, but I also don’t want to polarize you with the legal jargon at the same time. And so I’ve tried injecting mostly myself, right? Because I am very intimately tied with my brands. And so but, yeah. I love that. And in fact, I’m putting this publicly out there. I’m going to start putting more testimonials into … Social proof’s amazing, but as far as when it comes to copy, what we’re talking about here, that was amazing. Danielle, that’s totally [inaudible 00:13:40]. That’s amazing.

Because for me that’s kind of a little, “Well, if you’re in one of those positions, you’re in a weird industry.” And you even said earlier, “Maybe it’s not sexy.” There’s many people listening who may not have a sexy product. They may not have a sexy service. And so your copy’s not going to be sexy. How can we sex it up? How can we make it more attractive and connected? I love that with the testimonials.

Danielle: Yeah. And I think part of it comes from, I was a teacher for 12 years, and I taught kids with learning disabilities. So I had to take these big concepts and break them down into super simple things. For someone like you, there’s kind of this methodology in teaching where we want to teach them the high level words. We want to teach them the high level concepts, but we’ve got to break it down. Using the legal jargon is okay if you’re always breaking it down into what does it look like and mean for me. Because when you use those words in isolation, I’m like, “Yeah, what is she talking about?” And that is true.

But when you say, “Hey, Danielle,” I don’t even know. I could not even begin to say a legal term. But, “You don’t have this contract in place. Here’s what happens when Johnny decides to sue you, and this is a case that went wrong, and here’s a case that went really well because of a good contract.” Then you can use that legal jargon, but teach it to me. I’m a grown up business owner. I can handle it if you break it down for me. And that just comes from teaching for so long is I had to teach kids what parallel structure was, but they couldn’t necessarily say that until I said, “Here’s what it looks like in your writing. Here’s what it looks like in your sentences, and here’s why it’s important to you.” So it’s okay to talk about the jargon-y stuff as long as you’re really breaking it down and making it human to them.

Rachel Brenke: Mm-hmm (affirmative). One thing I always have to remind myself when I’m going to sit down, I have to visualize that the person that’s consuming this piece of copy or content, this may be the first time that they’ve ever consumed it. This may also, even if they’ve been in my audience, maybe the first time that they’ve ever been interacting with whatever that specific topic is, and so for me oftentimes I’ll forget, “Oh, I’ve been talking about contracts for 10 years, so my whole audience knows all about it.” So I skip through levels 1 through 10, and I go to levels 11 and 12. But then people are asking me questions.

I got to remember I’ve always got to lay the foundation. I think that’s easy sometimes for us to project when we are so ingrained in doing this in our business all the time. We forget about the basic steps. And that’s why I love the basic girl marketing that you do, because everyone’s seeking this golden bullet or silver bullet, golden ticket of how they can cut through and write amazing copy. It really is about going back to the basics and just connecting.

Danielle: It is. And I think that we all forget our own expertise levels. We don’t feel like experts because of all the imposter stuff, but really, when you are entrenched in something you are an expert, and you completely take for granted that other people don’t know that stuff, and so you skip over it. And so you skipped to steps five, six, seven of a process, and they have no idea what steps one, two, three, four are, because you know them. And you think, “Gosh, that’s so silly for me to talk” … I mean, I taught ninth grade forever, and I would think ninth graders knew what verbs, nouns, pronouns were. I can’t tell you how many kids came to ninth grade not knowing that.

So I’m over here talking about how to structure a sentence and [inaudible 00:17:03] and all that, and they don’t know what a verb is. And so I had to go back and say, “Here’s what a verb is.” And you do that constantly with your clients, because they’re not you. So a fitness pro coming to you for legal advice, I mean, they’re a fitness pro. They’re all up in fitness. They’re doing training plans. They’re in the gym. They’re buying workout clothes. They’re doing all that stuff. They’re not really looking at legal stuff unless they’re setting up an e-business or in some kind of trouble.

So you have all this knowledge and training and experience, and you think everyone else should just know this, because you do, and you forget that they don’t. And so never feel like you’re being too basic in your content, but also know you can always bring it up. So if you give them the basics, you can always go to the next level, and you can always give them more as long as you taught them the basics.

Rachel Brenke: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative). I love that. Another thing, too, and this is a good segue into the freebie that you have., Danielle’s got a bunch … Or download a guide about how to write irresistible email subject lines, because that, for me, is actually, I could write content all day long, but subject lines is really hard for me because I want to be quippy or clever. And sometimes I just need to go back to the basics. But anyhow, guys, click over. You can get that guide, download it. It can work on helping to improve your open rate. The guide has things like the seven types of email subject lines you need to be using, how to avoid landing in spam boxes, and samples of these so you guys can kind of start getting your creative juices flowing on it.

Don’t forget, if you want the show notes and for everything as we wrap up here to connect with Danielle, go to We will link this email subject line guide and also tell us a bit about the Well-Positioned CEO. This is a group that you have for business owners who are tired of these groups that are full of self-promotion. We have a Business Bites group on Facebook as well, and we are very anti-self-promotion as far as we want it to be very educational based. We will allow people to promo on certain threads from time to time. But I love seeing that you’re having a group that’s cultivating the same educational mindset. So tell us a little bit about Well-Positioned CEO and where people can find you if they want more help with their copy.

Danielle: Yeah. So I just got really tired of being in groups that were like the secret self-promotion where it’s these long posts, and we’re like, “You know you’re just selling something.” Or four people are asking the same questions over and over again, and there’s no real conversation. So I started this group literally from scratch, and it’s only about a month old. It’s a baby, because I wanted to have conversations about how to position yourself in the marketplace. I wanted to have conversations about scaling and growing and actually doing things like long-term, not just the splash in the pan marketing strategies that are here today and gone tomorrow.

But I wanted to bring real business owners together, not people who just throw up a website and call themselves something. So you can find it at, or you can just search on Facebook, the Well Positioned CEO, and it’ll pop up. And then, yeah, if you have copywriting needs or you want to learn how to write copy for your business or have me train one of your team members, you can find everything you need at, and you can find me on Instagram at BasicGirlMarketing.

Rachel Brenke: Awesome. Love it. Well, thank you so much for taking your time. Guys, there’s some great action tips. Don’t forget we’re going to break them all down on the show notes, episode 84 at Also, get into the Business Bites Facebook community group. We have been having a barrage of new members, a lot of good conversations. I look forward to you guys improving your copy. Please feel free. Post it in the group. Send it to me. I want to see improvements that you’ve made from learning out of this episode or from the other stuff that Danielle may have for you. Until next time, guys.

Featured Guest & Resources

Danielle is a conversion copywriter for service-based business owners who want to scale their business and make more sales She also hosts The Basic Girl Marketing podcast, and runs a mentorship program that will teach your team members how to write copy, so you can stop outsourcing and start increasing your profits! Danielle is a wife, mom, former teacher and a basic girl to the core. She loves Starbucks, Legally Blonde and all things sparkly.

You can find Danielle here:

Additional resources:

I’ve got a new Facebook group open called the Well-Positioned CEO. This group is for business owners that are tired of the same old questions, and the Facebook groups dripping with self-promotion. We chat all things scaling, next level tactics, and positioning yourself as the go-to expert in your industry! If you want to be a part of the conversation, head over to

About the author

Hi, I’m Rachel Brenke

Rachel Brenke

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